The Downfall Of Trouble ?

I have been reading a lot of posts on various boards from people complaining that Trouble is dead and past it. Most of these criticisms are pointed at new singer Kory Clarke who i saw with Trouble not too long ago and i thought did a alright job considering he will never really ever replaced Wagner. There is also divided opinions over the albums released after the self-titled album in 1990. All of which i like a lot except "Simple Mind Condition" which left me a bit cold. What is your opinion on the history and future of Trouble, are they still a force or is their best days long gone ?

On a side note, i received a message from someone who caught the Death Row set at the recent Hammer Of Doom festival with Wagner on vocals. He claims he did a killer job and really suited the band, i hope they tour here sometime soon.

Wagner,like Hetfield,is one of those kind that the only way you can continue is to find someone that can somewhat mimic their voice.

Back in the day I was pretty good at that,I had that grit and attitude in my voice.Eric was one of my biggest influences.With their obvious Trouble influence,I heard a Wagnerian type vocal fitting Last Chapter,but they didn't really want that.

I was singing in kind of a lower(I never could sing very high) toned down Marcolin kind of approach for the verses and using kind of a Wagner type vocal burst for some choruses,they were okay with that as long as I kept the roaring to a minimum, and backed off on the vibrato in the verses..(sigh) good memories

Nowdays,because of stupid acid reflux getting into my vocal cords,can't really manage the grittier stuff.

I saw Trouble with Kory august 2008 (in Norway), and it was hands down the best concert I've ever attended...
Now I have to admit I never got to see "the real deal" in action - except for the "live in stockholm" dvd... (just cause the lazy bastards didn't care to visit the center of the universe before... *sigh*)

But what I did see was a band that were so oozing with energy and enjoyment in playing, that it was impossible not to jump, headbang or whatever while listening to it.
I spoke with Andrew from My Dying Bride after the show, who is a huge Trouble fan, he thought maybe the new vocalist was a bit "over-energetic" to play in a doom band, but it sounded good as long as he shut his eyes...

Anyway, I like Manic Frustrations alot, Simple Mind Condition I haven't really cared for, and Plastic Head somewhere in between. Abit like the later efforts by King's X. Both bands keep producing quality music, but it's quite naturally difficult to produce new "classics" of the format they used to. Their first releases were extremely passionate, fresh, energetic & natural, qualities hard to "intentionally" reproduce in a consistent manner (imo).


Anyway; As long as they quite apparently enjoy playing together, and continues to produce music that is way above average of all the shit that is released... I think they are still to be reckoned with.

Yeah,sorry,I misspoke,what I meant was,the only way you can continue to give the fans what they want is to find someone vocally similiar,or someone who can mimic.

IDK,I think Clarke is in a Sammy Hagar position,The band just isn't Trouble without Eric.On the flip side though,I know of some people that didn't like Trouble because of Eric's unique vocals,not many ,but a few.

The "exception to the rule" list is larger these days

Black Sabbath
Judas Priest
Saint Vitus
Candlemass
Fates Warning
Anthrax

IMO though

I think Eric belongs in this elite list of "not the band without"


Bobby Liebling
Mark Zammaron (Las Cruces)
James Hetfield
Dave Mustaine
Chris Boltendahl
Lemmy
Dee Snider

withering wrote:

I saw Trouble with Kory august 2008 (in Norway), and it was hands down the best concert I've ever attended...
Now I have to admit I never got to see "the real deal" in action - except for the "live in stockholm" dvd... (just cause the lazy bastards didn't care to visit the center of the universe before... *sigh*)

But what I did see was a band that were so oozing with energy and enjoyment in playing, that it was impossible not to jump, headbang or whatever while listening to it.
I spoke with Andrew from My Dying Bride after the show, who is a huge Trouble fan, he thought maybe the new vocalist was a bit "over-energetic" to play in a doom band, but it sounded good as long as he shut his eyes...

Anyway, I like Manic Frustrations alot, Simple Mind Condition I haven't really cared for, and Plastic Head somewhere in between. Abit like the later efforts by King's X. Both bands keep producing quality music, but it's quite naturally difficult to produce new "classics" of the format they used to. Their first releases were extremely passionate, fresh, energetic & natural, qualities hard to "intentionally" reproduce in a consistent manner (imo).


Anyway; As long as they quite apparently enjoy playing together, and continues to produce music that is way above average of all the shit that is released... I think they are still to be reckoned with.

Glad to see someone out there that still loves Trouble, Trouble are one of my favorite all time bands so i was a little peeved to read such negative comments about the band. Some people either hate change or just pick on a band for some petty personal reason. I still have faith that Trouble will produced a killer album with their next one. I talk to Bruce regularly and he says the new album contains the best songs they have written since the 80's. Also don't fall the shit that is going around forums about Clarke punching Bobby Liebling in the face on the recent Trouble/Pentagram shows. I have heard there was no punch, just a minor argument that has been blown out of all proportions by Bobby's girlfriend on her Twitter page. Can't understand why people would take so much notice of something on a Twitter page anyway.

SabbSteve wrote:

Yeah,sorry,I misspoke,what I meant was,the only way you can continue to give the fans what they want is to find someone vocally similiar,or someone who can mimic.

IDK,I think Clarke is in a Sammy Hagar position,The band just isn't Trouble without Eric.On the flip side though,I know of some people that didn't like Trouble because of Eric's unique vocals,not many ,but a few.

The "exception to the rule" list is larger these days

Black Sabbath
Judas Priest
Saint Vitus
Candlemass
Fates Warning
Anthrax

IMO though

I think Eric belongs in this elite list of "not the band without"


Bobby Liebling
Mark Zammaron (Las Cruces)
James Hetfield
Dave Mustaine
Chris Boltendahl
Lemmy
Dee Snider

I would add to that list -

Lee Dorrian

I love Trouble I really liked Simple Mind Condition it was only Plastic Green Head that I never really got into but perhaps I need to get a copy and give er another go. But I really got into Simple Mind Condition for a few months and still enjoy it.
I like the 90 on era very much but I dont know if I can get behind Clarke. Maybe if I heard new material because the live stuff Ive heard just wasnt doing it for me.
I actually liked Bush version of Anthrax more than Belladonna (though I love a lot of that too). They should almost do another project like when the Vengeance members left and called it Die Happy even though it was just a new singer

I think the next Trouble album will be a make or break situation for the band. Clarke really has to prove himself now.

ghosts of athanasius wrote:

I love Trouble I really liked Simple Mind Condition...

Just finally got around to picking up Simple Mind Condition about 2 weeks ago and have been spinning it constantly; I really dig it! I really enjoy the post 1990 material, though their early stuff - especially the first two - are my favorites.

And Clarke... I don't know, I haven't heard him sing for TROUBLE yet, but I think his previous band WARRIOR SOUL is pretty awful. I'll definitely give their next release an open-minded listen before writing it off, though...

Yeah, i must admit i cringed when i heard Clarke was the new singer. I hated Warrior Soul .

ed wrote:

withering wrote:

I saw Trouble with Kory august 2008 (in Norway), and it was hands down the best concert I've ever attended...
Now I have to admit I never got to see "the real deal" in action - except for the "live in stockholm" dvd... (just cause the lazy bastards didn't care to visit the center of the universe before... *sigh*)

But what I did see was a band that were so oozing with energy and enjoyment in playing, that it was impossible not to jump, headbang or whatever while listening to it.
I spoke with Andrew from My Dying Bride after the show, who is a huge Trouble fan, he thought maybe the new vocalist was a bit "over-energetic" to play in a doom band, but it sounded good as long as he shut his eyes...

Anyway, I like Manic Frustrations alot, Simple Mind Condition I haven't really cared for, and Plastic Head somewhere in between. Abit like the later efforts by King's X. Both bands keep producing quality music, but it's quite naturally difficult to produce new "classics" of the format they used to. Their first releases were extremely passionate, fresh, energetic & natural, qualities hard to "intentionally" reproduce in a consistent manner (imo).


Anyway; As long as they quite apparently enjoy playing together, and continues to produce music that is way above average of all the shit that is released... I think they are still to be reckoned with.

Glad to see someone out there that still loves Trouble, Trouble are one of my favorite all time bands so i was a little peeved to read such negative comments about the band. Some people either hate change or just pick on a band for some petty personal reason. I still have faith that Trouble will produced a killer album with their next one. I talk to Bruce regularly and he says the new album contains the best songs they have written since the 80's. Also don't fall the shit that is going around forums about Clarke punching Bobby Liebling in the face on the recent Trouble/Pentagram shows. I have heard there was no punch, just a minor argument that has been blown out of all proportions by Bobby's girlfriend on her Twitter page. Can't understand why people would take so much notice of something on a Twitter page anyway.

Good call on clearing that up Earthdog,that would probably be a deal breaker for me,having met the too cool Victor and him putting my name in the liner notes of POS made all those involved also with Pentagram feel even more like doom brothers to me,and you don't attack my brothers without good reason,do that and your name is bastard to me.

Speaking of that,did you ever get the story of what happened with Wino and the Hidden Hand .The post he left regarding that was kind of cryptic.........

I actually spoke to Wino personally about the split up of The Hidden Hand and what he told me was also cryptic ! He did say however he was disillusioned with the other guys in the band and the direction they wanted to take the band, whatever that means !!

Here is that post I was referring to :

THE HIDDEN HAND, the band featuring hard rock
guitar legend Scott "Wino" Weinrich (ST. VITUS, THE OBSESSED, SPIRIT
CARAVAN), has split up.

Commented Weinrich: "Without going into
detail to embarrass anyone, this is a message to inform everyone THE
HIDDEN HAND no longer exists. I cannot any longer tolerate being
promised stuff that never happens or be accused of dishonesty. I think
in my long and fruitful career I have always tried to be fair and
honest, even going out of my way creatively and financially to make it
happen including compromise. I have put an enormous burden on my family
and myself to try and fulfill my dreams which have not been to enrich
myself financially, but to enrich others as well as myself spiritually
and emotionally. The music industry these days turns on the most
mediocre shit, be it pop or cheesy black metal, which is really just
sickening or laughable. So be it. I will still be wholeheartedly
dedicated to the SHRINEBUILDER project with Chris and Al of OM and
Scott from NEUROSIS. This will be a long way off but I KNOW these dudes
are FOR REAL. SO all I will say now is thanks for believing. I'm sure
some will assume I am some ego guy who's impossible to work with,
nothing is farther from the truth. I just expect the same amount of
fairness and respect I give. A tall call these days, unfortunately."


Sounds like a lot more than being disillusioned,this is the kind of thing I was talking about,in attacking the brothers of doom,Weinrich took the high road and gave no details, but obviously there were some flaws in the other members characters.

There was a lot of hurt feelings going on there, when i interviewed him for my blog he refused to answer most of my questions about The Hidden Hand. He said it was better just to move on with other questions.

downer...

Yeah i for one was very upset when i heard The Hidden Hand had split. I thought they were one of the best bands Wino has ever been involved with.