Def Leppard...

Do you think, in your opinion, that Def
Leppard were ever a heavy metal band, or do you agree with the band
that they were always just a pop band. I am curious to see what other
opinions of the matter are.

Would appreciate anyone's votes and comments on the Heart of Metal board about this:
http://heartofmetal.niceboard.com/Main-Forum-Area-c1/Heart-Of-Metal-f1/Def-Leppard-t1132.htm

Feel free to leave remarks here as well.

I am of the opinion that they started out in
much the same way as the other New Wave of British Heavy Metal bands
like Saxon and Maiden, influenced by the likes of Thin Lizzy, UFO,
Sweet, Mott the Hoople, Wishbone Ash, etc. Their first EP, On Through
the Night, High & Dry and to a lesser degree Pyromania, were most
certainly heavy metal albums. As they became more popular they went
more and more glossy pop, which is fine. That's the direction that they
chose. However, there is no doubt in my mind that they started out as a
metal band, even if Joe Elliot now claims they never were a metal band
to begin with. Thoughts? Comments?

I agree with your analysis of the situation, ult. And as for Joe Elliot, I stopped listening to anything he had to say as soon as I heard the lyrics to "Pour Some Sugar on Me".

What the hekkebah is a "feecheh" anyway?

I've always classified them as a Hard Rock band... not quite metal, not quite pop.

That said, I don't think their commercial success should reclassify them as a pop band. They were as hard a rock band as many other acts at the time. But I felt that their early stuff lacked the complete metal edge displayed in the overall vibe of bands like Priest, Maiden, etc.

For example, some of Styx's heavier stuff would still be classified as hard rock to me. I've always sort of put Lep in that category instead of the early Brit metal bands.

However... I was a huge Lep fan in my youth!!

Since you and Trog are about the same age as me, do you remember a time when "hard rock" and "metal" were one in the same? I'm not sure when the separation started, but it had to be sometime in the late 80's. In the 1970's hard rock bands like Aerosmith, Black Sabbath, UFO, Led Zeppelin, Ted Nugent, Kiss, etc. were also called heavy metal.

You are probably right - I just never felt that Def Leppard had enough edge to them to be heavy metal. My opinion of course, but I always thought they were just a bit lighter.

They lacked a certain darkness that I associated with the more true heavy metal bands like Sabbath et al.

But heck - I'm an old man and maybe I've lost most of the brain cells that were alive back then!

I always called DL a pop metal band. I think the separation started when thrash started to get really big and it made the old heavy metal not seem as heavy. That's just MHO of course. AC/DC is another one of those used to be heavy metal bands.

etombdissonance wrote:

I always called DL a pop metal band. I think the separation started when thrash started to get really big and it made the old heavy metal not seem as heavy. That's just MHO of course. AC/DC is another one of those used to be heavy metal bands.

Yup. AC/DC were always known as a heavy metal band back in the day. Apparently most don't consider them such anymore. History revisionism IMO.

I asked this question on the Heart of Metal board to one person that felt that Def Leppard's early material wasn't heavy metal:

Quote :

Def Leppard...they started out a regular rock band.

So do you also think that about Saxon, Tygers of Pan Tang, Angel Witch, Satan, Blitzkrieg, Raven, etc.? They all had a sound not far off from "On Through the Night" and "The Def Leppard EP".

yes i do... regular rock.

So what was heavy metal in the late 1970's and early 80's then if bands like Def Leppard, Saxon, Tygers of Pan Tang, Angel Witch, Satan, Blitzkrieg, Raven, etc. were not heavy metal? The fact is, these bands defined the sound of the New Wave of British Heavy Metal. They may not be 'heavy' as we have it today with all the metalcore, death metal, and black metal stuff, but it was still heavy metal.

I've even had people argue with me that bands like Judas Priest and Black Sabbath are not heavy metal. Again, this just boggles my mind how people can just redefine music history.

For me Def Leppards best was Hysteria but I do love the song Photograph that song KICKS!

People think only the current heavy music is the true heavy metal. Heck, Deep Purple was probably heavy metal in the day. Maybe those goups you listed could be called classic heavy metal. I don't really care but it is weird how people will redefine music. I can't wait until Judas Priest is easy listening.

I like DEF LEPPARD's early material. At the time, I called it "heavy metal". Was it that or was it "hard rock"? I dunno - don't care. I don't care that it doesn't fit into today's "reclassification" of what the term "heavy metal" means. What the hell does it really matter anyway, and why does this subject continue to come up over and over again as though it did?

TrogDawn wrote:

What the hell does it really matter anyway, and why does this subject continue to come up over and over again as though it did?

I suppose it doesn't really matter what people think. I was just asking opinions on the subject since it came up again. I guess I am still surprised that people have no problem redefining
history and since my site is called NoLifeTilMetal.com, it comes up
quite a bit for me.

I was really taken back by the quote above that Saxon, Tygers of Pan Tang, Angel Witch, Satan, Blitzkrieg, Raven, etc. are "just hard rock" and not heavy metal. To me, that discounts the entire NWOBHM movement.

ultmetal wrote:

I suppose it doesn't really matter what people think. I was just asking opinions on the subject since it came up again. I guess I am still surprised that people have no problem redefining
history and since my site is called NoLifeTilMetal.com, it comes up
quite a bit for me.

Not a slam on you at all, Scott. It just seems like people constantly challenge you on this particular issue.

And I'm probably just getting tired because of all of the online arguments I've been a part of and exposed to lately...

TrogDawn wrote:

ultmetal wrote:

I suppose it doesn't really matter what people think. I was just asking opinions on the subject since it came up again. I guess I am still surprised that people have no problem redefining
history and since my site is called NoLifeTilMetal.com, it comes up
quite a bit for me.

Not a slam on you at all, Scott. It just seems like people constantly challenge you on this particular issue.

And I'm probably just getting tired because of all of the online arguments I've been a part of and exposed to lately...

Yup, it comes up a lot for some reason. I constantly get emails stating that "this band or that band on our site isn't metal...".

ultmetal wrote:

Since you and Trog are about the same age as me, do you remember a time when "hard rock" and "metal" were one in the same? I'm not sure when the separation started, but it had to be sometime in the late 80's. In the 1970's hard rock bands like Aerosmith, Black Sabbath, UFO, Led Zeppelin, Ted Nugent, Kiss, etc. were also called heavy metal.

I am sure I am just a couple of years older than you guys, turning 42 this August, and I can remember those days.

Actually, the split with metal/hard rock occured in my neck of the woods in about 80/81 when a few of us started listening to a lot of NWOBHM and that set us apart from the others who found that a bit too extreme .

The sounds of say, Saxon,Def Leppard, Tygers,et al. were not that far off from that of Triumph,Aerosmith, Nugent and the like, but for some odd reason, the bands from Europe were sooo much heavier .

Then in 83/84 when thrash exploded, the lines were forever seperated...

Oh, and as far as Leppard ever being a 'metal' band; sure, why not. OTTN & H/D were very heavy for that time frame. I actually got to see DL in '83 on the Pyromania tour with Uriah Heep opening. They were loud and pretty heavy. I'm so old school, I can say I saw Def Leppard when their drummer had both arms.

Yep, I remember with great fondness the days when hard rock and even classic rock and heavy metal were still really closely related. *sigh* the good old days...

metalken wrote:

Oh, and as far as Leppard ever being a 'metal' band; sure, why not. OTTN & H/D were very heavy for that time frame. I actually got to see DL in '83 on the Pyromania tour with Uriah Heep opening. They were loud and pretty heavy. I'm so old school, I can say I saw Def Leppard when their drummer had both arms.

You are sooooo old school!

So let me ask about the last DL album, Yeah! Is it what they were really all about at the beginning or what?

I don't know if it was what they were really about, but music that they found that got them interested in doing music.

Their latest release, YEAH!, is the first thing I've been interested in from them since before Hysteria. What I've heard of it sounds pretty good. The ELO cover they do of "10538 Overture" is spot on!

metalken wrote:

I don't know if it was what they were really about,
but music that they found that got them interested in doing
music.

I remember reading interviews with them early on where they listed some
of these guys as influences. Bands like Thin Lizzy and Sweet were the
inspiration for many of the NWOBHM bands.



ult

I picked up YEAH! yesterday (the Target version apparently), and I must say that I'm quite impressed. It's the best sound I've heard from them since Pyromania.

Now I have to find all of the various extra tracks from the many different versions.

Quote :

Now I have to find all of the various extra tracks from the many different versions

I hate that. I have a version with all but one song-I think.

Their newest one sounds good