Good point sabbsteve!

LOL !True,Gloomy One,which is why I'm not much into trad(there's that word again !) death metal .I remember as a youngster that there were times that I thought about dying but I wasn't really serious because then I would think,you know,I might miss hearing some cool epic doom if I die now,one of the silly great paradoxes of life.

When it comes to older, established bands, I love them as they are/were...storytelling, etc.

But, I have to admit, I love personal lyrics with good symbolism & allegory...I actually prefer it, to an extent. Songs about wizards, demons, trolls, etc are cool enough sometimes, but I like more "real world" lyrics...not necessarily "I hate myself & want to die" in every song, though...

Evoked - Why are you so bent out of shape over the term "Traditional Doom"?

To quote Otto of the Simpsons"Man,this thing's getting out of hand !" I'm not here to argue man,especially over particular "terms".I mean were not talking religion here or anything,as Trog said, complete objectivity is nearly impossible.I,for example have always written by feelings when it comes to metal.I put the disc on and go with the vibe it gives me and if I like some particular concept or lyric I will mention it in my review.Now if you truly do want to argue try the CMR or Firestream boards.There are some there that will bang heads with you until your only desire of existence is to find a giant bottle of Exedrin and crawl in LOL ! Seriously though,who defines these terms,IMO and there are many who would agree with me,Tony Iommi,Geezer Butler and Bill Ward invented the music we call doom, yet don't really even claim it ,that term I mean.Most of what I know about doom metal,it's origins etc. I learned personally from Mr. John Perez and from auditioning and hanging out with Last Chapter.Some of the terms I use I got from them though honestly I can't remember who said what and when.Everybody here has heard it before but doom is truly like an extended family to me and most band members and fans just really don't argue about certain terms.It's kind of a situation like a line I once wrote"The majority of doom rock fans don't care what the band's name is as long as Wino is playing in it."I wrote this about how Scott was playing in The Obsessed and was now playing in Spirit Caravan.

I love King of the grey islands I know some will gasp at that comment but I love Robert Lowes vocals for them of course I am a Solitude Aeturnus as well

I have this in digital format, but I have not yet given it a listen.

Even though I love Robert Lowe's vocals, I'm just not that big a fan of Epic Doom.

(*GASP!* say it ain't so, Trog! )

So even though I appreciate and have much of C-MASS's and SA's output, they rarely get any play. I think it has to do with their music being less "rock" and more "metal" in terms of what influence the borrowed from Sabbath. Or, to put it another way, less fluidity/groove and more rigid/monstrous.

Just my personal opinion and taste, of course. And I don't take anything away from either of these bands with regards to their incredible impact and influence in the world of doom.

I too love KOTGI's but I love the more metal aspects of doom. I think My Silent Wake is pretty epic at times and don't you really like them Trog?